阿瑞：艾古丽女士，我知道您的故乡是罗马。我童年时期就对意大利的艺术非常喜爱。我12岁开始学习绘画时，我记得画的令我难以忘怀的石膏素描就是意大利的一件头像雕塑作品——米开朗基罗雕塑石膏复制品摩西像，至今记忆犹新。后来，我有机会到我的绘画老师家里阁楼浏览西洋画册，当时正值文化大革命刚结束，我在老师的家里看到了意大利著名画家拉斐尔的画作印刷版。拉斐尔对“美惠女神”的描绘给我留下了深刻的印象，我想这也是出于一位少年对美的憧憬。

　　Aray：Madam Egoli， I know that your hometown is Rome. I have been very fond of Italian art since my childhood. When I started studying painting at the age of 12， I remember that the first sketch of the painting was a figure sculpture of Italy， the Michelangelo sculpture plaster replicat the Moses，which is still fresh in my memory. Later， I had the opportunity to visit my painting teacher’s house. At the time when the Cultural Revolution in China was just ended， I saw the printed version of the famous Italian painter Raphael there. the depiction of the Graces by Rafael left a deep impression on me. I think this is also because of a young man’s worship of beauty.

阿瑞向艾古丽女士赠送阿瑞作品集之一《从南粤古驿道到罗马古道》一书

Aray presents one of his article collections to Madam Egoli， “From the South China Historical Trail to the Ancient Rome Routes”

　　艾古丽女士：我来自罗马，今天和我同行的丹尼尔先生也来自罗马。他在来领馆工作之前曾是一名专业的导游，对罗马的历史、文化及罗马的著名景点背后的故事也十分了解。罗马的艺术世界闻名，罗马的古迹也得到很好的保存。

　　Madam Egoli：I am from Rome. Mr. Daniele Panfilo， who is with me today，is also from Rome. He was a professional tour guide before he came to work in the General Consulate，and he also knows a great deal of the history of Rome， the culture and the stories behind the famous sights of Rome. The art of Rome is world renowned，and the Roman ruins are well preserved.

　　阿瑞：我对罗马古道也有所了解和研究。在我对南粤古驿道活化和修复工作推进的过程中，借鉴了罗马古道的一些概念。据我了解，milestone一词最早时源于罗马古道。南粤古驿道的活化利用和修复可以刺激广东省各市乡村旅游，促进粤北贫困地区的经济发展并为徒步爱好者创造更多具有历史感的徒步路线。

　　Aray： I also studied on the ancient Roman routes. In the process of promoting the activation and restoration of the South China Historical Trail，I borrowed some concepts from the ancient Roman routes. For example，as far as I know， the word “milestone” originated from the ancient Roman routes. The activation， utilization and restoration of the South China Historical Trail can stimulate rural tourism in various cities in Guangdong Province，promote the economic development of poverty-stricken areas in northern Guangdong and create more historical walking routes for hikers.

阿瑞向艾古丽女士讲解文章中提及的南粤古驿道与罗马古驿道的关联

Aray explained the relationship between the South China Historical Trail and the Ancient Rome Routes mentioned in the article to Madam Egoli

　　艾古丽女士：我想这样做是非常必要的，特别是中国的南方。意大利人很少到中国的南方来旅游。对于古道、古建筑等古迹的修复有利于吸引更多的游客。近年来，意大利人对中国越来越感兴趣。我想你们有很多方式吸引游客，其中包括对古迹的修复。这样可以让人们更多地了解中国。

　　Madam Egoli：I think it is very necessary to do so， especially in South China. Italians rarely travel to the southern part of China. The restoration of ancient ruins，ancient buildings and other monuments is conducive to attracting more tourists. In recent years，Italians have become increasingly interested in China. I think you have a lot of ways to attract tourists，including the restoration of historical sites. In this way people can learn more about China.

　　阿瑞：在英国，有哈德良长城，包括在德国都有很多古罗马帝国留下的古罗马之道，他们一直作为吸引游客的热门景点，并引以为豪。我不知道在意大利境内是如何利用这些古道，现在情况如何。

　　Aray：In the UK，there is the Hadrian’s Wall. In Germany，there are also some parts of the ancient Roman routes left by Roman empire. They have always been popular attractions for the tourists in the UK and other European countries.  They are proud of having these ancient routes. I don’t know how the situation of the ancient Roman routes inside Rome now. How are they utilized by Italian Government？ 

阿瑞与艾古丽亲切交谈

Dialogue between Aray and Madam Egoli

　　艾古丽女士：提到意大利的古迹，实际上，在地中海地区有很多地区都留存着古罗马帝国时期的古迹。例如，在非洲的突尼斯存有很多古罗马帝国的遗迹包括村庄等都保存完好。古罗马帝国的遗迹基本都保存较好，没有对遗迹的造成损坏。除了角斗场，实际上最初角斗场的地面和墙体都是铺有白色的大理石的，整体是纯白色的，非常漂亮。后来，来自贝尔尼尼家族的一员下令将所有的大理石拆除。这个对古迹没有进行完好保存的一个例子，但是我认为这只是个特例。我认为大部分的遗迹都得以完好地保存下来，比如，罗马水道就是一个非常好的例子。古罗马浴场也得以很好地保存。古罗马浴场的墙体内设置有通热空气和烟的管道，因此室内非常温暖。现在古罗马浴场作为歌剧院，如果您夏季到罗马，就可以在古罗马浴场内欣赏歌剧，那种感觉无与伦比。因为古遗迹得以完好保存，所以即使一个意大利人在罗马你每天都会有新的发现。

　　Madam Egoli：When it comes to the ruins of Italy，in fact， there are many places in the Mediterranean region that well preserve the ruins of the Roman Empire. For example，in Tunisia in Africa，many remains of the ancient Roman Empire，including villages，are well preserved. The remains of the ancient Roman Empire were basically preserved and there was no damage to the remains，except for Colosseum. In fact，the ground and walls of the original Colosseum are covered with white marble，the Colosseum is pure white，very beautiful. Later，a member of the Bernini family ordered the removal of all the marble. This is an example of a ruin that has not been well preserved，but I think this is a special case. I think most of the ruins are preserved intact. The Roman Aqueducts is a very good example. The ancient Roman baths were also well preserved. The walls of the ancient Roman baths are equipped with pipes to transfer hot air and smoke，so the interior of the Bath is very warm. The ancient Roman baths now serve as opera houses. If you go to Rome in Summer，you can enjoy the opera in the ancient Roman baths，which is amazing. Because the ancient ruins are preserved， even if you are an Italian，you will find new discoveries every day in Rome.

　　阿瑞：另外我为何关注古罗马之路，是因为整个欧洲的城市史是跟古罗马之路的衍生是分不开的。整个地中海城市的布局包括德国的城市布局都是以古罗马之路为基础而衍生出来。比如雷根斯堡这座城市，就是由古罗马帝国建立的军事观察哨为中心发展起来的。雷根斯堡（Regensburg）在德文里面就是雷根河畔的兵营的意思。另外，我在对城市纹章的研究中发现很多城市的纹章设计都融入了古罗马艺术图像元素，例如松果、象征力量的罗马军团的权杖等。冠饰的设计也包含了很多古罗马艺术的元素，例如月桂花冠、橄榄枝等。在您面前班门弄斧了。

　　Aray：In addition，why do I pay much attention to the ancient Roman Routes. Because the history of the cities in Europe is inseparable from the origin of the ancient Roman routes. The layout of the cities in entire Mediterranean area，including the urban layout of Germany，was derived from the ancient Roman route. For example，the city of Regensburg was developed from the military observation post established by the Roman Empire. In German, Regensburg means the barracks on the banks of the Regen River. In addition，in my study of urban coats of arms，I found that many cities’heraldic designs incorporate elements of ancient Roman art，such as pine cones，the scepter of the Roman legion that symbolizes power. The design of the crown also contains many elements of ancient Roman art，such as laurel wreaths and olive branches. Sorry for showing off in front of you.

　　艾古丽女士： 您的知识非常渊博。实际上，我认为古罗马帝国最成功之处不仅在于其统治持续的时间长，而且也在于它的疆域十分广阔。如果你看一看古罗马帝国的地图，可以看到古罗马的疆域拓展至整个欧洲并延伸至亚洲。古罗马帝国的统治者在国家治理方面非常明智，制定了较好的法律和法规，而且非常包容，允许他们所统治的地区尊崇自己的文化。我想这就解释了为什么古罗马帝国能持续如此之久的原因。

　　Madam Egoli：You are very knowledgeable. Actually，I think the most fascinating part of Roman Empire is not only the duration but also the extension. If you look at the maps of Roman Empire，it takes all over Europe and up to Asia. They are so smart in keeping the empire in good condition. They introduce good organization，good governance.They are not the kind of people to rule other cultures. They will be ok if you keep your own culture by yourself. But they are very good at the laws and social rules and social pattern to any kind of territory of letting people keep to their own culture. That explains why the Roman empire can stay for so long.

　　阿瑞：条条大路通罗马，下一步，您的罗马之路会通往哪里？（备注：艾古丽总领事即将离任意大利驻广州总领事一职，返回意大利履新。）

　　Aray：All roads lead to Rome. Next，where will your Roman road lead to？（Note：Consul General Egoli is leaving the post of Consul General of Italy in Guangzhou and returning to Italy for a new post.）

　　艾古丽女士：我要回罗马，我想这是个好消息。目前我还不是特别清楚，回到部里再工作2-3年，看看有没有其他机会。

　　Madam Egoli： Now I will go back to Rome，which is a good news.I don’t know yet. I go back to the Ministry  and I work for the Ministry for 2-3 years and I will see other opportunities.

　　阿瑞：不论你去哪里，我都会祝福您。您所走过的路都将是鲜花盛开的道路。 欢迎您和您的同事到南粤古驿道，这条中国的历史古道走一走，感受到无限的风光。

　　Aray：I will bless you wherever you go. The road you have traveled will be the road with blooming flowers. You and your colleagues are welcome to visit the South China Historical Trail，and take a walk along this historic road of China and feel the infinite scenery.

　　艾古丽女士：我非常愿意。我认为完好地保存古迹非常重要。这些古迹在我们西方人的眼里是非常迷人的。在意大利，还不是特别多人了解中国，我们希望更多地了解这一东方的文明古国。

　　Madam Agoli：I would love to. I think it is essential to revitalize  and well preserve the ancient trail. it is very interesting to our western eyes. we don’t know very much about Chinese culture in Italy. We really need to discover more. it is very interesting to see how another civilization has performed in such a brilliant way.

　　阿瑞：您刚才也提到丹尼尔先生对意大利的历史和文化非常了解。我们也诚意地邀请今天和您一起同行的丹尼尔先生为我们的驿道讲堂上一堂关于意大利文化的课。我将出席他的讲座并会为他颁发证书，他将成为南粤古驿道第一位外籍的志愿者。

　　Aray：You mentioned just now that Mr. Daniele Panfilo knows a lot about the history and culture of Italy.We sincerely invite Mr. Daniele Panfilo，who is with you today，to give a lecture on Italian culture to audiences of South China Historical Trail Lecture Series. I will attend his lecture and will issue a certificate of volunteer for him. He will become the first foreign member of South China Historical Trail Volunteer team.

　　艾古丽女士：我们领馆方面非常支持。我想他本人也会非常愿意。我们领馆也愿意提供人员，向中国的儿童和青年人介绍意大利悠久的文化。

　　Madam Egoli：We fully support it. I think he himself would like to participate in the volunteer program as well. General Consulate of Italy in Guangzhou would like to provide our staffs to delivered lectures on Italian culture and civilization to the children and young people in China.

　　阿瑞：如果您不介意，今天的我们的对话将以阿瑞与艾古丽总领事的对话为题刊登在南粤古驿道的网站。

　　Aray：If you don’t mind，today’s conversation will be posted on the website of South China Historical Trail with the title of Dialogue between Aray and Madam Egoli,，Consul General of Italy in Guangzhou on South China Historical Trail.

　　艾古丽女士：非常乐意。

　　Egoli：Yes， I’d love to.

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